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Two questions.


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26 replies to this topic

#1
Williham12

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My first question is this - I am under 18 and I understand that my parents can by a "two-tone" weapon and then "lend" it to me. I also understand that they would have to get UKARA membership to buy a non-"two-tone" weapon. Could I, if I went often enough, create a diary of my airsoft games with pictures ect, and then use that to buy a RIF, or is that not good enough?

My second question is - Can I become registered at the age of 15 (almost 16) and then change out the parts of a/spray paint black a "two-tone" weapon? Or is that manufacturing a RIF and therefore breaking the law?

Thanks.
Will.

#2
M_P

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As an under 18 unfortunately you cant buy anything gun shaped at all

You can cover up the two tone parts at the site with camo tape for example but you must take it off before leaving.

Also before I go, well done, nice to see a newer young player had actually researched andc understood the law. I'm impressed :)

#3
Williham12

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Haha, I wouldn't say researched, I would say - looking for loopholes. Turns out there aren't really any. Ahh well, the two tone doesn't look that bad in my opinion, anyway.

Thanks for the reply :D
Will.

Sorry, just another thing, relating to the second question - I can't buy parts such as a stock and then change it for the two tone stock?

#4
M_P

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I suppose you could at the site if you changed back before leaving, though wait for finius to come and post, he knows the laws better than the rest of us put together :P

#5
Williham12

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I shall do that, although changing them there sounds like a 'sound' idea, if it is legal.

#6
TPI

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Nope still manufacturing it will have to be done by a ukara registered person and the parts i beleive cant be in the same house

I'm Craig, God's Boss!
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#7
Williham12

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  • Guns: None, but looking at getting a two tone G&G M4A1.

  • Loadouts: DPM trousers, Black T-Shirt, WAS Compact RICAS OD Knee-pad, OD Gloves and Assault boots.
So I would have to get another, UKARA registered, person to attach the other parts (I was only really thinking of a black stock) while I was there and then take them off before I left.
The other thing is, although this would be illegal, surely nobody would know that I had changed it anyway. Half the guns that are supposedly two tone have about a 5th of the gun actually a bright colour, rather than over 50%.
And, you may be right, but I have not seen anything anywhere about the parts not being allowed to be in the same house.

#8
TPI

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Its caught under the manufacturing of a rif actually or atleast that is how a court will see it

I'm Craig, God's Boss!
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#9
Williham12

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Sorry, but what do you mean by "it's caught"?

#10
TPI

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It is how do i explain this erm think of a circle inside is manufacturing and it is in that circle you will find the parts not being allowed in the house

I'm Craig, God's Boss!
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#11
Devastator

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Not sure what Craig is trying to say there.

Previously we believed that under 18's could be gifted an IF, or a RIF if it was purchased by someone with a legitimate defence. This has been thrown into question recently though, so we can't be sure. It is what many people have been doing since the VCRA came in though, not that because lots of people doing something makes it right.

Your safest option is to rent from a site until you are 18.

#12
Williham12

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I honestly would rent them from the site, but it is 45 to rent, and only 25 if you don't. I am not sure I want to wait for two years before I buy a gun. The thing is, unless it actually becomes illegal to 'gift' a two-tone, or sites won't allow under 18's to play unless they rent (putting themselves out of a lot of money, and therefore putting the government out a lot of money), I am not sure how they are going to in-force not letting under 18's be gifted - because surely they wouldn't be able to tell.

#13
Finius

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Your parents may let you use an IF they buy for the purpose of your using it.

The law is ambiguous as to whether they may give it to you and at the moment my opinion is that it is safest to simply claim they remain the legal owners and you are simply using it (in effect, it's just a technicality, I wouldn't worry over it too much, it's more of an "if the police come visit, say this to be safe" thing).

In terms of "manufacturing" for the purposes of a gameday, if you are above eighteen, you do not need ukara to do so. Being on site at a registered and legally insured site would be enough, should the police turn up to validate your entitlement, provided you had made it clear you would return the RIF to the state of being an IF before you vacated the site.

Most under eighteens use scrim net, which is not a permanent attachment so sits in a nice legal grey spot where the police would just confiscate the scrim and leave you alone.

#14
Williham12

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  • Guns: None, but looking at getting a two tone G&G M4A1.

  • Loadouts: DPM trousers, Black T-Shirt, WAS Compact RICAS OD Knee-pad, OD Gloves and Assault boots.
So, do you know if there is a rule against attaching a black stock, for example - as that wouldn't be a permanent attachment. I wasn't sure if that was what you meant in your last reply.

#15
Finius

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By "permanent" I mean anything which cannot be pulled off easily.

Scrim netting and camo tape can be removed nice and quick, they're also not intended as permanent facilities (i.e. a nice stock isnt something you want to remove every time). The way I always look at it, is that if it's part of the overall makeup of the gun (i.e. a stock, handguard etc), it's a no no.

It's one of those fuzzy areas of the law which comes down mostly to the individuals in question and common sense.

#16
Cameron364

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I felt a bit like this, and still do, because I tried to look for ways around it but to save you hassel in the long run all I can say is take an over 18 along with you and get them to play the three games and then get them UKARA'ed and then they can 'gift' , a one way only transaction, a RIF, hope this helps although it has already been mentioned above!

#17
Williham12

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To Finius, I was looking at getting exactly the same stock that is on the M4 I am hopefully getting, just in black, so it should fit on the same buffer tube - and consequently be easily removed.
And, I would take an over 18 along with me, as this is what my friend has done, but my dad is 50 and doesn't have the time to go, and my mum isn't really the airsoft type :P

#18
Cameron364

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I've seen plenty of over 50's playing at my site, my dad didn't think he would enjoy it but he did when he got there he did.

Actually, Finius will vouch for this aswell, there is one guy at our site, (The Grange) who is called Brian, not sure how old he is but he must be over about 55, he has MS, and he still manages to get around alot.

In the safe zone he walks around with a stick but when he gets on the field he is like a very well disguised Ninja!

#19
Williham12

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Haha, this guy sounds like one cool guy, don't really think he has enough time though (my dad) as he can barely find time to go Snowboarding with me to this indoor place (near where I live) for a few hours, let alone a whole day of airsofting.
I might try and pursuade him at some point though :D

#20
Cameron364

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The way I read it made it sound as if he didn't want to go, sort of, he doesn't have time for that nonsense sort of thing, but if he goes snowboarding then he must be into those sorts of things, my Dad, on the way to the first skirmish was like, 'you sure you want to go' and 'my legs hurting, do you want to go home' but then when he got there he throughly enjoyed it!




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