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Gun for filmmaker


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14 replies to this topic

#1
Scott Freestyle

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I was completely unaware there where so many restrictions in place in the UK for replica guns. Im glad I used the net to educate myself otherwise I could have run into trouble.

Unfortunately these very restrictions have given me other troubles to consider. I need a replica gun, and I need it within about 10 days.

I have a shoot ( pardon the pun ) and I need a nice replica pistol that falls on the right side of the law but will also look good as a prop for a short movie project.

I'm not an independent film company (yet), I'm more of a hobbyist at the moment.

I looked online for such a pistol and came across the Hi Capa 38... its a lovely looking pistol, looks like something that would be used by Gordon Freeman from Half Life 2, and could be made to look quite authentic, with a bit of decent colour correction in post production. Unfortunately this gun has not been available for ages and I cant find one anywhere....

So.. can you guys suggest anything that falls within the criteria I need... I really will only use the gun on the very odd occasion so I could do without going down the route of signing up for the necessary documentation to use a more realistic looking prop at this point in time, so please suggest decent looking 2 tones or anything else you can think of.

thank you in advance!! :) ..oh and guys... gas blow back preferably with the bit that slides at the top... oh and budget up to 120... I dont like the KWA guns... they look to fake in two tone!!

I have just read below that if someone gifts you a replica gun that was purchased before the new laws where introduced and is in its original colours, you dont have to have it sprayed?...and thats completely legal and could be used for my film. I had someone offer me their old gun yesterday but declined because of the legalities... can someone confirm!!!!

Thanks!!

#2
Nickona

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HI, I would probs wait for finius on this as he's good with all the law stuff but I can give you a little help as a skirmisher and film maker.
Basically in order to get a RIF you need a defence as to why you need it. Skirmishing is the main defence and thats what most people do and use however, i do believe that film making is a also a valid defence but it will need to be for a project not just a 2sec clip in your back garden. I did also decided to get site membership in addition to film making as a defence as I do also skirmish.
Hope this helps but as i said before wait for Finius

EDIT: BTW yes you can gift to anyone even under 18s and they can be whatever colour

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#3
Da_sheriff

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i used to do films, lack the money to make any more atm, but i didnt use Airsoft, i wanted to save on time so i got model guns.......shell ejecting cap guns basically. my defense was me being a film maker. all i had to do was send the guy copy of previous projects and he sent me them. they cost about the same as a cheap airsoft gun, but are full metal.
i have 1 Mac11 with silencer which cost me 120 a m16 with a comando style forgrip which cost me 200 and a mad max shotgun which cost me 80. and they are dieal for film as you do have to animate the shell ejecting at a later point, and you get a more real looking muzzle flash. by which i mean you dont get an over the top flash that some people add to their films, but more a subtle flash.

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#4
Finius

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The law surrounding the VCRA is very much like waking up after mardi-gras.

It's messy, hurts your head, tastes like vomit and sex, and is probably the best walk of shame ever.

As a film maker, your options for proving defence are limited, especially with a ten-day timeframe. The VCRA doesn't however set out any specific requirements as to what proof may or may not be, for anything, merely guidelines that the Home Office will accept every time (which were published in another document), though it is clear they're not the only methods useable.

My advice would to be ring people who sell what you need, tell them the situation, ask them all about it. Or, people like Wolf Armouries will loan out guns for the film industry, I would ring them, see if they can help you.

#5
Nickona

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Or, people like Wolf Armouries will loan out guns for the film industry, I would ring them, see if they can help you.



i tried WA but you have to basically be a full time production company with stuff like insurance and stuff

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#6
Scott Freestyle

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i used to do films, lack the money to make any more atm, but i didnt use Airsoft, i wanted to save on time so i got model guns.......shell ejecting cap guns basically. my defense was me being a film maker. all i had to do was send the guy copy of previous projects and he sent me them. they cost about the same as a cheap airsoft gun, but are full metal.
i have 1 Mac11 with silencer which cost me 120 a m16 with a comando style forgrip which cost me 200 and a mad max shotgun which cost me 80. and they are dieal for film as you do have to animate the shell ejecting at a later point, and you get a more real looking muzzle flash. by which i mean you dont get an over the top flash that some people add to their films, but more a subtle flash.


But surely they fall within the same guidelines as they look and resemble the real thing?...

This is too confusing...

I suppose I will have to go for a two tone gun just to be on the safe side. I could do without all the hassle to be honest. I think my best bet is trying to buy something like the Hi capa 38 in orange and trying a few magic tricks in After Effects...

Any good looking two tone pistols that you guys can recommend...and can you use these while filming on the streets without hassle... for christ sake, why do criminals always have to spoil things for the decent and law abiding.... honestly !!! :(

#7
Nickona

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trying to make an orange gun black in post productio would be a right b*tch, just put up signs and let people know, thats what i did

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#8
Da_sheriff

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No, as they are classed as CAP gun, a sall cap charge (like those found on cap guns that you would be as a kid) are incerted into each round, and the fireing pin for these caps are located in the barel, and no behind the bullet, which means that you can get one, all you need is proof of being a film maker.

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#9
BaggyPants

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Absolute rot! The VCR Act covers ANY realistic imitation firearm, wether it fires BBs, caps or nothing at all. It make no difference wether it's made from plastic, metal, wood or cheese. If it is manufactured to realistically look like a real firearm, you need to have a defence under the VCR Act to be sold one. The onus is on the seller to obtain sufficient proof that you fall into one of the categories of people they can sell to. Any retailer worth their salt (and not wanting to go to prison) will not just accept the film/theatre defence without considerable proof.

#10
Vyking

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Hello all,

Allow me to wade in on this one. One of my many jobs in the film industry is running a small company called Action Replica Rentals- I hire out airsoft guns to independent and student productions who later add in the firing effects in post. I wrote to Wolf because the engineer said that I could come over and buy from the 'dead gun room' at one point. Then senior management found out and fed me the "registered film company" line- it's a con so they can protect their own business renting stuff out because they never supervise the items in person, which I do- meaning you don't have to get UKARA registered provided I own and oversee the gun on set. I cleared this with UKARA who said "They are your guns, as long as you supervise them it's all OK". I also consulted Equity UK and the Met, and have been certified in the legal issues surrounding replica and blank-firing weapons and their usage by an Equity recognised training body. So I know a bit what I'm talking about.

I operate on this principle and so should you- RIFs are NEVER, EVER, EVER used within public view or in an area where there is public access. The only time you do that is when you have big signs everywhere saying "Replica weapons are in use on this location" as well as having cleared it with the council and police and having a supervisory police presence. This will cost you money as the police will insist on double-bubble for their officers' time. Basically, you can't do it. Before you think using a two-tone will work out, I'd watch it. A mate of my dad works in SOCA- they went ape over people converting Bruni blankfirers and banned the import but there are so many ways to adapt even a bright orange blankfirer into a weapon that it has entered the public conscious, so there is still a chance you will get SO19 on your arse with that. Best thing to do is to put the scene somewhere where there is no public view- a warehouse, private garden (notify the neighbours repeatedly), garage, anything just PLEASE, for the love of airsoft, film and common sense, don't use anything in the street.

As for the cap model guns. I know someone who has a CAR15 one that he bought before the ban thus retaining the colouring and the action. I believe they are no longer available but the same rules on use in public view- Johnny Public doesn't care if the shell is held differently, he sees the shape, he sees the colour, he looks no further. Section 37 of the VCRA states that anything that (and I'm paraphrasing here) "can only be verified as a replica by a trained individual upon close inspection" is a RIF and therefore cannot be taken out in public.

If anybody is interested in renting from me at Action Replica Rentals, PM me and receive a special airsofter's rate: www.actionreplicarentals.co.uk

V

#11
Jester

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I know this is terrible of me, and I probably shouldnt even be mentioning this, but have you tried market stalls? Its surprisingly easy to buy cheap springer RIFs on them.

I once had a shop near my old house that sold spring M9s, spring 1911s, spring desert eagles, spring M4s, spring MP5s and spring Uzi's...and yes, this was after the UKARA was put into place. They were crappy quality, and made of complete plastic, but they'd look more convincing than a two tone rifle.

#12
bbguns4less

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i work at bbguns4less.co.uk we have some old broken guns that would be good for film making we have sold before to guys doing the same thing as you if your intersted sent us a email and ill sort you out some cheap stuff

#13
Nickona

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i work at bbguns4less.co.uk we have some old broken guns that would be good for film making we have sold before to guys doing the same thing as you if your intersted sent us a email and ill sort you out some cheap stuff


i'm interested in this, what you got?

Nick

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#14
Finius

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I know this is terrible of me, and I probably shouldnt even be mentioning this, but have you tried market stalls? Its surprisingly easy to buy cheap springer RIFs on them.

I once had a shop near my old house that sold spring M9s, spring 1911s, spring desert eagles, spring M4s, spring MP5s and spring Uzi's...and yes, this was after the UKARA was put into place. They were crappy quality, and made of complete plastic, but they'd look more convincing than a two tone rifle.



Whilst I appreciate what you're saying is true Jester, as a community of airsofters we should not be endorsing, supporting or in any way advertising this sort of thing going on. The Government already hates guns and anything that looks like them, the last thing we need is more fuel on the fire against our hobby and this sort of encouragement shows that we aren't going to regulate ourselves, which in turn shows that we need more Governmental restriction and thus, will eventually damage our hobby. So yes, you're right, you shouldn't be mentioning it. I'll also add that saying "Oh, I know this is bad, but, go break this law by buying from people breaking the law" could be taken legally as an attempt to incite unlawfulness, which carries fairly hefty sentencing and is being pursued by the police more where online material is concerned.

Sorry if I sound uppity, or grumpy, but as I always say, I've worked very hard for airsoft and all things to do with it, I don't particularly like seeing people putting it at risk, it's nothing personal.

#15
Ammo

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I only just saw this post and it's actually a shame I had not caught it sooner. I have a nice little collection of PFC (plug fire cap) replicas which are excellent for small movie projects. You get a very authentic look without the dangers of a projectile or the loud noise associated with blank firers (a LOT cheaper than blank firers too). I have a couple videos I made of a few of them being fired so can upload them to my web site of anyone would like to see what they look like when firing.

For making movies though they are perfect. I've had people stuck in this kind of situation before where they were not able to get hold of any RIF's to use for their movie making because it was a hobby project. I simply took my PFC pistols to the place of filming and supervised their use on set to make sure they were used safely and that all those handling them knew how to use them properly. The only thing I asked the person who was making the movie for was to cover the costs of the caps used on the day and just made it clear that although they fire caps they are to be treated like a firearm (all common sense really). I'm pretty sure there are companies out there that offer this kind of service professionally but they tend to come with a price tag. I was just happy to have my PFC's used for something worthwhile, my costs covered and name in the credits, lol. :)




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